Dr. Yishan Xu and Craig Inzana discuss the science behind sleep and how it interacts with our mental health. We also dive into what caffeine is doing to your sleep and why you need to pick a time to wake up and stick with it.
Yishan Xu, Ph.D. is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Mandarin and English Speaking, insomnia and anxiety specialist.
She is also the host of Deep Into Sleep Podcast, a show all about sleep.
Sleep & Mental Health, A Cyclical Relationship with Dr. Yishan Xu (Happy You Are Here Podcast)
Craig Inzana: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the happy you are here. Podcast. In this show, we talk about tools, techniques, and ideas to help us live more fulfilling and connected lives. In this episode, normally we do video, but we are going to just do audio in this circumstance because the video, there was a bit of lag that was going on between the internet connections, which the audio actually turned out fine because we record.
On the local systems on both computers. When we do record. However, the videos did not sync up and it’s pretty distracting. So we are just going to go with the audio because the audio sounds great. There’s a lot of great content here, and I am respectful of dr. Yashan Xu, who is the guest, uh, I’m respectful of her time.
And I want to make use of this great content that we recorded. So in this episode, we talk about sleep specifically. How does sleep affect. Mental health. And also how does mental health fact sleep? Dr. Yishan Xu is a clinical psychologist at mind and body garden psychology in California, and works in different areas, different spaces, but it has a lot of experience in specialties in sleep and, and how that relates to mental health and other potential disorders.
So there’s a lot of really interesting things. I got to ask a lot of questions that people. Ask me a lot about sleep and I had some misconceptions. So there’s some interesting things in here, like studies about caffeine. How does caffeine affect your sleep? It’s not what I had thought and what I had read in articles.
Excited to be able to share this with you. So here we go.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:01:45] Thank you for having me. So I’m a clinical psychologist and I have my own group practice in San Francisco, South Bay area. We mostly do bilingual services, which treats a different type of mental health disorders, like anxiety, depression, and we see both adults and children’s, we have.
Both psychologists therapists and psychiatrists, we all work together as a team, to my goal originally, it was really to help the local Asian company, unity to get rid of stigma of mental house, because Asians are reluctant to reach out for help. They tend to handle on their own thing. It’s shameful. Right, right.
So we really want to do a lot of education to the local community, to how people know, Hey, we are here, there are resources. And if you need help, please reach out. And so that’s how we got started. And now we are growing and the way our working with the community, very happy.
Craig Inzana: [00:02:46] Wonderful. I think the one thing that we connected on originally was.
Sleep and how that relates to mental health and a lot of different ways. That’s one of your areas of, of expertise of your specialties. So, you know, with some really broad strokes, we’ll get into some actual actionable things that people can take away from this, but in some really broad strokes, um, you know, how significant is the effect of.
Sleep quality, uh, on
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:03:13] mental health. Yeah. Very good question. Yes. My own specialty is treating anxiety and sleep disorders, especially insomnia. I was trained in Stanford sleep medicine center. I would say sleep and mental house. Holds lay related, possibly both in both directions, in a way we can see sleep as a symptom of a lot of diagnose for both depression and anxiety and many other mental disorders and the same time, not only sleep quality, and it’s just having different aspect of sleep disturbance, it could be a risk factor for some kind of.
Mental house concerns. Um, there are actually a lot of research showing if we have some kind of mental disorder or for example, if we are depressed, then we may have wrong estimation about how much we actually are sleeping. We may think we sleep well, sleeping enough, but actually we are sleeping a lot longer, but these kind of perception can cause a lot more, you know, anxiety sleep.
And just to, to make us more depressed, feel hopeless about sleep. A lot of people feel like we lose the ability to sleep better. And also for a lot of people, if we have. Nightmares. Um, sometimes that’s could also be a risk factor for some kind of, um, mental challenges. And there are several research so far showing actually nightmare itself, no matter whether we have a PTSD or depression, just having nightmare itself may be, be a risk factor for suicide that I had to take.
But at the same time, we need to remember having this marriage. It’s common. It’s normal. It’s indicate some stress, something like we bring it into our dream, so don’t be afraid of having it. But, uh, I think as house care providers, we should be aware of it. And just ask more questions about it and then maybe gave some intervention around it early on.
Craig Inzana: [00:05:22] A lot of people like to interpret nightmares and dreams. Um, especially I think nightmares because they’re so impactful on someone’s psyche. Is that beneficial for people to do that? Um, maybe to find out where a source of stress is.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:05:36] Good question. Um, I remember I had one episode talking about nightmares or some great research papers and intervention.
Menus out there for treating nightmare. Actually, a lot of research shows just by interpreting that may or try to dig down and say what’s a content of it. What it means to me may not be helpful just by itself because interestingly we include Nicola way more. Satan nightmare ads. A habit is it has its own function.
Um, so when we have nice mayor, yes, our brains consolidate teams past these appearance, the emotional, his appearance, and the try to help us survive bad for a nice time with similar situations. Uh, it possibly sometime it could be triggered by something in real life. Sometimes it’s not, but if we keep on having a nightmare and we are concerned about it, Eventually nightmare, take Ali’s own life.
It’s it’s, um, become a new thing on its own. And then we start having more and more it’s become a habit. So, um, we just need to relate. I understand it, reduced anxiety about it, and then slowly, you know, balance our positive thoughts, positive imagery and negative imagery, and then a lot of intervention in a way kind of restructure reframe.
It’s a nightmare. We can change the nightmare. Eventually we will get better and better.
Craig Inzana: [00:07:09] That’s interesting. Yeah. I think that, you know, a lot of people from different maybe modalities have. A lot to say about, about nightmares. And, you know, obviously it’s a trigger from, from stress or some kind of trauma, but it’s interesting to conceptualize it as a habit that kind of gets its own a life of its own.
So you mentioned briefly about how depression relates to sleep and that it distorts our understanding of. Our, our perception of how our, how we’re sleeping. Um, I’ve personally, I experienced that where I have overslept significantly in, in bouts of depression. Uh, but felt like I was not sleeping enough.
And then it’s just kind of you, at that point, you really didn’t know what to do. You’re like, do I sleep more? Cause I feel exhausted. Or do I force myself to wake up and, and stick to some kind of routine so that maybe I can move past this episode. What kind of thoughts do you have in that area or experience do you have in that area?
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:08:05] So we treat very common. One symptom of depression actually is sleeping too much or not enough, right? Either you have insomnia or you just can not get off bed. A simple. Thing we normally encourage depressive, uh, depressed patients to do is just get up, get out, move it’s. Um, because for sleep it’s tricky, the more we stay on bed, like sleeping longer does not necessarily improve the sleep quality.
And if you are not sleeping the whole time on that, you are just laying on there. I’m so exhausted. Ted I’m depressed. I just don’t want to move. Let me just be on bad resting. So to it’s even worse for sleep because that’s eventually just confused. Our brain, our brain was saying, well, well, I’m, I’m bad. I can be exhausted.
Why read awake? I’m not always asleep. So our brain cannot help us to go to bed. Feel like I’m sleep anymore. So we kind of like break this link between bad, truly it’s for sleep. So if we just lay on bag for too long, a lot of people, if they are, they have some kind of insomnia, no matter how long they stay on that.
Their insomnia just gets worse and worse.
Craig Inzana: [00:09:31] Yeah. And it’s that link between a space and the mental, uh, relation your brain’s relation to that space is something that keeps coming up in the podcast a lot, whether it’s. Regarding your bed or a different room. People talk about kind of the separation of work and relax and play and connecting with others.
Your brain kind of connects all of those things to spaces. So when you walk into a space it’s triggered and if you mix a bunch of those things into one space, it has a tendency to get confused. You know, I think that is potentially a really valuable piece of actionable advice as to if you’re struggling with that.
If you’re struggling with staying in bed too long, like get up out of bed and also don’t watch. Some, a piece of advice a therapist had given me was don’t watch television in bed. Don’t don’t even really read in bed, like go sit on your couch and read. And then when you’re tired, go to bed and fall asleep.
Cause that starts to break that bond, uh, between, between your bed and other actors.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:10:25] Yes, exactly. That’s a very good advice. Uh, we definitely, uh, as sleep specialists too, a do recommend the people, you know, if you have sleep challenges, Try to just use your bad for a sleep mostly, and then try to move all the other things away from bad, sometime even a chair besides a bad, or on the floor of the bag.
Some of my patients do that is fine. It just really helps your brain to pick up the secret though. And when one way of using that technique, um, in addition to what you mentioned. It’s in the middle of the night. Right. Even because some people, their problem is they cannot stay asleep. And they, they was asleep for a little bit and then wake up and then they just cannot go back to sleep anymore.
No matter how hard they try and very frustrated about that. So that’s another opportunity to leave the bed. Basically, anytime, if we just cannot sleep, don’t force it. Nobody can control sleep. Nobody can forced to sleep. Just. Get out of the bed, do something gentle, enjoyable with them light. Um, not too stimulating until you feel the sense of sleepiness.
You feel sleepy. That’s the cue from your body until you go back to bed. If you cannot fall asleep again, get up again for some people at the beginning of the treatment, they actually have to do that. More than 10 times per night, but that does not last for many nights. Some people while tonight, some people less than a week and then they can sleep better.
Craig Inzana: [00:12:05] So how does anxiety play into sleep? I’m assuming that is a contributor sometimes to people that have trouble sleeping, maybe they wake up often. Um, is there kind of an interplay, does, uh, sleep quality affect anxiety as well?
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:12:21] Yes, exactly. So what I normally sees are two ways, anxiety and sleep kind of, uh, play a role in each others.
Like course is for some people, you know, they, when they start having some sleep disturbance, they start about sleep more and more. Is this is a new virus, right? Well, I can not, I did not sleep. Well last night. Well, what about this night? If I don’t sleep while two 19 are all I’m panicked, I’m very varied.
What it’s going to do to my house. Will I ever be able to sleep? Uh, good again? So this can go on and go on and people get become more and more sensitive about it. And the thing about sleep all day long, they think about how I can sleep better tonight. And during the daytime, they may rest more as they may cancel plans in all their to rest because they feel like I’m weak.
I did not sleep well. I have to protect myself. I have to do something, but those exactly make sleep worse. So that’s one type of anxiety. For sleep, the other type of sleep anxiety, I would say just general anxiety. You know, nowadays people worry about jobs, finance, worry about being sick. So all of this were very about children and this kind of varies.
They actually happened more actively at night when we try to sleep, our brain does cannot stop running. It’s it’s dark, it’s quiet. It’s perfect. It’s time for us to worry. And there’s a reason for that because our brain, you know, we have the emotional part of the brain. We have the rational part of the brain.
When we try to sleep our rational part of the brain, actual leads, falling asleep. It does not work anymore, but nighttime, it’s the time for our emotional brain. Now there’s nothing to balance it. So our emotional brain just gets so proactive and we start worrying and pick on that and just the emotion gets high and gets us very more in the more so that’s of course, make us, um, Make our sleep quality can be bad, may make the sleep difficult to happen.
So, um, kind of be related to insomnia yeah. Or fragmented sleep. And of course, if we don’t sleep well, a lot of people experience more moods disturbance during the day, and more worries about yourself and deeper into things and more sensitive to any life challenges around them. So it’s really negative. Uh bi-directional.
Craig Inzana: [00:15:01] How can someone start to correct that pattern, that kind of spiral that happens? Cause yeah, I feel like most of us, at some point, at least in a little way has experienced that
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:15:13] when we treat sleep disorders, when we want to help people sleep better, that’s why we always. Do two ways, like one is behavioral.
What’s your just mentioned, what do you need to do? What do you possibly want to avoid doing to adjust? So sleep habits, but the other big component, which is very a part of the evidence based the treatment for insomnia called CBT for insomnia. The C part is a cognitive part is how to adjust to our perception about sleep, about vibrates or wronged our life that may interfere with sleep.
So if we have a lot of worries about sleep, so we need to learn more, uh, evidence based. Knowledge about sleep. So to understand what’s the reason, same behind sleep. When you know, Oh, we don’t have to sleep seven or eight hours. Not everyone needs to do that. We don’t all have to, you know, go to bed at 11, got up at seven.
That’s not faith for all people we can have, like, you know, if you have insomnia, not necessarily, you’re going to have. How’s consequences. Uh, it may like people having so many for 10 or 20 years, they’re doing fine. You, you feel awful during the day, but your function will be okay. A lot of people with longterm insomnia, they still get promoted at work.
They still handle a lot of challenges, even though they feel miserable, but the actually can function fine. So is there a lot of knowledge behind that is a big part of it? You know, helping people it’s this education and that’s already, they can reduce a lot of anxiety about sleep. And then we can regarding like either type of anxiety, we kind of use some psychological intervention to how people, you know, change time to, to think, uh, to worry at night.
I sometimes plan to people, you know, think about, if you worry at night, you think a lot, a lot. In the daytime in the morning, have you ever find, you have to re re think about everything and replant everything, right. Did you really figure things out by giving us so much time at night? If you’re, you know, if your frontal lobe is not working, you won’t be able to plan things.
Craig Inzana: [00:17:40] You know, I have had a lot of experience with that. There’s like running thoughts in at night. Uh, I’ve dealt with a lot of anxiety. In general. And that’s usually, of course, when it’s the hardest to kind of convince, like talk yourself out of it and to step off the ledge, so to speak. And I think the thing that helps me the most is just reminding myself every time I have spiraling thoughts like this is, is this something I can do about anything about right now and at night?
No, the answer is always no, like, I’m not going to do anything about this right now. So it’s not worth thinking about. If it’s important, it’ll come back up tomorrow and maybe I can do something about it then. And even during the day, that’s generally a way to kind of, uh, in my experience to, to lessen the like spiraling effects of anxiety is just to ask them, is there something that I can do about this?
Cause if there’s something you could do about it, then you know, that helps work through the anxiety in a positive way. But if there’s nothing you can do about it, then it’s really. It’s just patients. A lot of the times you have to do with things.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:18:39] Yeah. Yes. I totally agree. And there’s a masseur related to what you just mentioned with teach people called the vari time, right?
It’s like, you know, we make sure you’ll, we’ll handle it during the daytime and like 10 minutes. Murray time. So that’s why a lot of people feel safe. Okay. I don’t, I kind of drop it at night because tomorrow, every day I have this 10 minutes time to think about it. And Williams think about that. Yes. Part of the thing like with him every time, there’s a lot of things you can do, but part of the component it’s too.
Teach people to figure out if it’s under my control or if this is out of my control and what is like one next step I can do about page no matter, you know, it’s in my control or out of my control, that’s just how people sort out and really when our brain works, not when our brain out of sleeping.
Craig Inzana: [00:19:34] Yeah, no, that’s valuable information.
I didn’t, I did not know that about the right brain left brain. The cognitive side and the emotional side, having different levels of activity at night, that’s really valuable.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:19:47] Yeah. I always believe having some, uh, good science based knowledge, make it simple, you know, it does not have to be fancy. Um, just.
So the simple information make sense to a lot of people and just make them more willing to try different methods and Wednesday feel like, Oh, this actually is helpful. Even a little bit. It’s there more by a more motivation to try. And then, you know, they really can benefit.
Craig Inzana: [00:20:18] Yeah, absolutely. So how do you, what are your thoughts on the, um, there’s a bunch of different ones.
There’s all these like sleep tracking apps. Um, I have used sleep cycle, but my experience it’s useful in a way, but my experience has been that sometimes it can, it can create more anxiety about sleep. And I’ve heard that as a common critique of like, uh, these different apps because. When you’re tracking every little thing about it, then you’re waking up and you’re like, Oh, I got a 56% score last night.
Like my day’s going to be horrible. And then you kind of are presetting that for your day. When can those be helpful? And are there, are they generally maybe not a great idea to dig into, unless it’s kind of something that a psychologist or therapist is recommended for you?
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:21:05] Yeah, that’s a very good question.
And very commonly asked question, why talk to different sleep doctors? We talk about this topic often over all. I think a lot of us, our idea is, you know, if you don’t have sleep concerns, you don’t have insomnia. You don’t have this kind of, um, difficulties with sleep. Then wearing a tracker is not that.
And you can, you know, it’s monitored either aspect of your house. And just to you, don’t worry about sleep. You just curious, you want to know that’s fine. Just keeping mind. They now the trackers so far are very accurate. You know, it’s just a tracker, no matter how many sensations it can be attacked, it won’t be able to replace the technique.
In a hospital, you’ll sleep there for one night to the sleep study, right. Attract her, just won’t be able to do seems like that accurate it’s different things based on different matters, please. I’m sorry. Sometimes makes the different stage of sleep a little bit, but I would say if people have insomnia or not sleep very well, then have a tracker and constantly monitor sleep.
Could cause problem. And actually it’s, they are our type of insomnia nowadays. It’s not the, in the diagnose menu, but clinically we are aware of it. It’s caused by trackers by this technologies. Yeah. Big. Why? Because people won’t say when we track sleep, we take sleep as a performance. Just as any tasks, sleep is a task I need to perform well every morning I need to check how did I perform last night?
And then what can I do to perform better tomorrow? But we can not control sleep. It’s not something I can try harder than I can sleep better. It’s just when we have that mindset, it just won’t work. Even for the city of habits. Um, behavioral strategies we talked about earlier, if people have too strong minds that I you’re gonna do everything, right.
Just make sure my sleep is good. We said mindsets. It’s still going to cause problem sleep. Should it be a natural thing we should. Wow. And to happen, go with the flow. Go of control. Trust our body. Just let sleep naturally happen. But see it as a performance and using a tracker. Exactly.
Craig Inzana: [00:23:39] Yeah. I think a lot of people have trouble with just allowing their body to naturally do.
And I, you know, what effect does something like caffeine? There’s a lot of us that are using way too much caffeine in our daily lives. And I’ve noticed. How significantly I’ve quit caffeine. I started drinking it again, and I noticed how significantly that affected my sleep quality. And it’s like, you know, I’m trying to figure out all these other things, like, am I going to sleep on time?
What is my evening routine? What’s my sleep environment. Like when really it’s probably the thing that’s causing the issue is, is, is most likely excessive caffeine consumption during the day
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:24:17] I drink coffee every morning, too, like right. Even right now, maybe with me. Right. So it’s like, yeah. But there are lots of mixed research about that.
Um, I think for cuffing, I always just help people to remember caffeine, just have a very long half life. Many of us may not know the half life of caffeine. It’s about four to seven hours. That’s means for some people, caffeine can take up to 14 inches hours to get out of the system. By, from the time we drink is to the time it’s gone the whole day, basically.
So if we drink coffee too late, and if we are sensitive to coffee, so we’re going to be in trouble. I used to, um, go out before Koolaid. I went out with friends for. Boba tea. Of course the who thinks there are a lot of caffeine in it, but then it’s, it’s black tea, a lot of coffee. I ended up not sleeping the whole night, or I had a very fragmented sleep possibly in the, you know, lifestyle jumps to meet most times.
So I just feel like horrible that night after sleep, but, you know, because I’m very sensitive to caffeine, so I will not. Uh, drink it. And I normally recommend people try not drink it if they are sensitive, not drink it after noon. So just leave enough time for me to get out of your system, but there are research showing convene compared to.
Smoking and other things and actually impact our sleep very minimally. And for some people who are not sensitive to caffeine a may not have that negative impact at all. So, um, literature in this field are still new, you know, mixed. It’s hard to say, okay, that’s the lane, don’t do it, do it. He walks away.
Normally we just have this guideline trying to. Educate people about this and encourage people to make their own choice and be aware of it.
Craig Inzana: [00:26:18] Yeah. I think the half-life thing is something that I know a lot of people. I don’t know, I’d bring that up often when I’m talking to people and they’re like, wait, what?
I didn’t realize it stayed in my system that long. I drank it at four o’clock in the evening. Why am I not able to sleep at 11 o’clock at night? And it’s a, I mean, experientially, once you are aware of that, uh it’s it’s very
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:26:36] obvious. Hm Hmm. Yes. I even have patients quoted that that’s like a research or this kind of statement was I made them in session.
They said, Hey, I already cut down and cut eating. After I know about that. But somehow my sleep is still bad. What else? Kind of,
Craig Inzana: [00:26:52] yeah. Right. Is there if I maybe am. I think most of the listeners of this show are a little, uh, already into self improvement or habits and that kind of thing. So I would hope that some of them are already thinking about their sleep patterns and things, but let’s say someone doesn’t really.
Do much, uh, in regards to consciously thinking about their sleep, but they have trouble sleeping. Where are some places where maybe there might be the most impact if they make some specific changes to their habits around sleep?
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:27:25] I would say, uh, even though there are lots of things we can do, there are some very easy, same postings.
Because people can get started, who is, and nothing fancy, you know, remember for sleep, our circadian rhythm, our biology always strong, and we should always go back to it. So we kind of always started from regulating our circadian rhythm because it’s strong enough to help us sleep. So people can always start from getting op.
At a consistent time through all the week. I mean, Monday to Sunday, not a big discrepancy between weekdays and weekends. Right. That would just throw us off. Oh, it’s
Craig Inzana: [00:28:12] a very unpopular idea.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:28:15] Yeah. I’m working from home, whereas it’s quite challenging. So I always people say, Oh, it’s so hard. I cannot, you know, go to bed at the same time.
You got to have the same time all the time. I said, you know, if we have to choose bedtime versus wake up time, I choose wake up time. If you cannot control, when you, you go to bed, the regulates, when you get up first. Because when we got up first in the morning, always consistently, consistently means not exactly that’s clock, but you know, a half hour we go room.
Right. And that’s where our body build up this routines at. Oh, okay. GABA around this time. Resets locating reason. Like in the mornings, like the incur, and then I go, go, go even nighttime kind of shift when I go to bag. But morning, time, always like that. That’s very healthy and helpful to our body. So I always recommend people.
That’s always an easy first step to do. Firstly,
Craig Inzana: [00:29:15] how long does it usually take for someone to. You know, for us, uh, there, there’s getting rhythms to kind of get used to and get into that set pattern. Um, if they’re waking up at the same time every day, I think it’s sometimes that can be a very difficult task to undertake if you’re used to.
Just kind of sleeping as long as you can or want to, especially on the weekends. So I’m just curious, like, if there’s any research on how long that takes
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:29:43] you mean how long it takes to build up this habit? Like, Oh, okay. It’s not long. Think about just a weekend off schedule con totally threw us off. Right.
And then Sunday night, Monday morning, we may not feel as good. So I would say our circadian reasoning is very sincere every day, two days. So you already see a difference. So, uh, for every week, W we won’t. I understand that people want to sleep in, especially a night at all, had to get up early, to work. That it’s difficult, but if we just cannot do that, we may suffer more.
It just very, very Pinfold that way. So I think people kind of use different methods, like use light in the morning to help us wake up early. If we have to get up early for weekdays, like around seven or eight, but the way our night to Al we’d naturally sleep until 10 or 11, the, um, during the weekends, maybe still get high at like eight or nine, maybe, um, a little later, but then during the daytime can take a short nap, uh, or do more activities and try to go to bed a little bit early.
Just keep a house, the sleep. Um, quantity, whatever our body needs, everybody needs different things that would possibly be housed there. Then just shave, shifted the schedule all over the place.
Craig Inzana: [00:31:17] There’s so much more I could ask about these topics, but I think that. We’ve covered a lot of really good stuff and a lot of valuable stuff that the listeners can go sit on and, and, and really think about how that can apply to their own lives.
Uh, I’m asleep. I think this is a good opportunity to take some of these, these things and try them out. And, and some of this information, you know, that’s, as there’s some valuable things you’ve covered in it, but I’ve paid a lot of attention to sleep for a long time. And I maybe didn’t. Was misinformed or didn’t know about some of the research.
So thank you so much. Is there somewhere I know on your website, there’s a lot of resources. You have a lot of really great 10 on there and some like interactive quizzes and stuff that, um, people can kind of assess. Do some self check, um, stuff about their sleep and some other anxiety and things you want to let us know where that website is and if there’s anywhere else or any other information you’d like to be able to
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:32:09] connect to.
Paul wants to know more about mental house. They can just go to my clinic’s website, mind, body, garden.com. Uh, we have a lot of English and Chinese blogs there. I also have two podcasts, one in Chinese, all about mental health. Why in English all about sleep cause so, um, no matter which topic, people are more interested in, they can.
Learn more about that. And, uh, I can send you the, Oh, all of them are on my clinic’s website, but I also have deep into sleep that call as my podcast website, but they all link together.
Craig Inzana: [00:32:47] Great. And we’ll make sure to link all of that in the show notes below. Thank you so much for joining us. And is there one piece of information or advice or just message that you’d like to leave people with before we end the show
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:33:00] loves that question.
Guardian. I just want to say something about sleep that I want to encourage people to really trust our body, at least into the seasonal of our body. Just to remember no matter how bad our sleep is right now, our body knows how to sleep. Sometime, because too many things in our mind, we just cannot connect with the signals.
Our body is trying to send us, we are sleepy, but we are not sleeping. We are working right. We just ignore those signals. And then for awhile we just can not Deepak it anymore. So there are a lot of ways to help people to reconnect with our body and then sleep can happen. Naturally, just go with the flow.
Trust have the hope, have the trust that sleep could happen.
Craig Inzana: [00:33:51] Thank you so much.
Dr. Yishan Xu: [00:33:52] Yeah. Thank you for having me.